OTTAWA – Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he maintains that he and his staff “always acted appropriately and professionally” and that he “completely” disagrees with how former attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould characterized events during her stunning testimony.
He stated that while it has been a “difficult few weeks” as the result of “internal disagreements,” he “strongly maintains” that he and those around him did not act improperly in regards to the SNC-Lavalin case.
This comes on the heels of Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer calling on Trudeau to resign after Wilson-Raybould alleged political interference in the criminal prosecution of SNC-Lavalin.
“Justin Trudeau simply cannot continue to govern this country now that Canadians know what he has done. That is why I am calling on Mr. Trudeau to do the right thing and to resign. Further, the RCMP must immediately open an investigation if it has not already done so,” Scheer said.
During her testimony Wilson-Raybould said she was subjected to a months-long "sustained effort" from nearly a dozen senior government officials to pressure her into doing what she could as then-attorney general to have federal prosecutors drop criminal charges against SNC-Lavalin.
“For a period of approximately four months, between September and December of 2018, I experienced a consistent and sustained effort by many people within the government to seek to politically interfere in the exercise of prosecutorial discretion in my role of Attorney General of Canada, in an inappropriate effort to secure a prosecution agreement with SNC-Lavalin,” she said Wednesday.
Wilson-Raybould is testifying before the House Justice Committee on the SNC-Lavalin scandal, which centres on allegations of political interference in a criminal case. In her opening remarks she said that the alleged pressure included "veiled threats" if she did not change her mind.
The allegations she is responding to are whether or not she felt pressured by senior government officials when she was attorney general to instruct federal prosecutors to drop the criminal prosecution of the Quebec construction and engineering giant and pursue a remediation agreement instead.
This is the first time she is speaking publicly since the controversy began unfolding. Throughout her testimony she has cautioned her limitations in being able to speak broadly about the case because of the specifics of the waiver of solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidence that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had issued.
Despite this, Wilson-Raybould has offered an in-depth account of approximately 20 exchanges specifically on the SNC-Lavalin case while she was still attorney general and justice minister. She is not able to speak about any relevant matters that occurred after she was shuffled into veterans affairs.
Accounting of meetings, texts
Through a more-than-30-minute opening statement she detailed chronologically a series of communications with her office, ranging from in-person meetings and phone calls, to text messages and emails from 11 senior staffers from the Prime Minister's Office, Privy Council Office, and the finance minister's office.
Wilson-Raybould said that this pressure occurred both before and after the director of public prosecutions had decided that federal lawyers would be carrying on with the criminal case and would not be seeking a deferred prosecution agreement. She also said that she repeatedly heard from senior officials that the ultimate decision whether or not to interfere in federal prosecutors’ work was hers to make.
Wilson-Raybould said she was consistently reminded of the potential political implications in Quebec, should SNC-Lavalin be found guilty in this case and therefore no longer be able to apply for federal contracts, possibly leading to the company moving out of Canada.
Speaking about a text conversation her then-chief of staff Jessica Prince had with Trudeau’s then-principal secretary Gerald Butts, Wilson-Raybould quoted her staffer as telling her that Butts had allegedly said: “Jess, there is no solution here that doesn’t involve some interference.”
Butts resigned on Feb. 18 amid this scandal. He has denied any wrongdoing and said he was leaving because he had become a distraction.
During one conversation she said she had with the prime minister, she said she looked him “in the eye” and directly asked him if he was politically interfering in her role, after he allegedly referenced being the MP for Papineau, Que.
“The prime minister said, ‘No, no, no, we just need to find a solution,’” Wilson-Raybould said.
In another exchange, Wilson-Raybould named Ben Chin, who is Finance Minister Bill Morneau’s chief of staff. She said that he spoke with Prince to say that extending a deferred prosecution agreement to SNC-Lavalin needed to happen out of fear the company would relocate.
"In my view these events constituted pressure," she told the committee.
Wilson-Raybould said discussions about potential job losses at SNC-Lavalin were appropriate in the “initial phases” of the debate.
“But after I had made my decision as the attorney general not to enter into, or issue a directive, the successive and sustained comments around jobs, became inappropriate. Because I had made my decision and everyone was fully aware that I had made my decision,” she said.
Wilson-Raybould referred to more “veiled threats” that came around December 18 and 19, when there were “many different occasions where the appropriateness line was crossed.”
On her leaving cabinet
Wilson-Raybould believes that she was shuffled out of cabinet as a result of her refusing to change her mind about this case, something she says Prime Minister Justin Trudeau denied.
“In my view, the communications and efforts to change my mind on this matter should have stopped. Various officials also urged me to take partisan, political considerations into account, which it was clearly improper for me to do so. We either have a system that is based on the rule of law, the independence of prosecutorial functions, and respect for those charged to use their discretion and powers in a particular way, or we do not,” Wilson-Raybould told the committee.
“While in our system of government, policy-oriented discussion amongst people at early points in this conversation may be appropriate, the consistent and enduring efforts, even in the face of judicial proceedings on the same matter, and in the face of a clear decision of the director of public prosecutions and the attorney general to continue and even intensify such efforts, raises serious red flags in my view. Yet, this is what continued to happen,” she said.
Asked about why she agreed to take on the veterans affairs role despite already having what she described as “anxiety” about how she was interacted with in regards to her time as justice minister and attorney general, she said she stayed because she trusted and had confidence in the prime minister.
She was then asked if she still has confidence in the prime minister today. Her response was: “I resigned from cabinet because I did not have confidence to sit around the table, the cabinet table. That is why I resigned.”
'Shaken by what I've heard'
The committee agreed to extend its hearings past the scheduled two hours as Wilson-Raybould continued to take questions from MPs on the committee. In their opening comments to her, both Conservative MP Lisa Raitt and NDP MP Murray Rankin told Wilson-Raybould that they believe everything she has said, and applauded her courage for speaking out.
“Mr. Chair, I have to say that I am very shaken by what I’ve heard here today. I’ve been a lawyer for over 40 years, I’ve taught a generation of law students about the rule of law, and what I’ve heard today should make all Canadians extremely upset,” said Rankin.
“Now, Ms. Wilson-Raybould, we’re both from British Columbia. We’ve known each other for many years and I need you to know that I believe you, entirely.”
Raitt, sitting next to Rankin on the committee, nodded her head in agreement.
“I need you to know that,” Murray continued, “and I want you to know as well that I very much admire your courage in being here and telling Canadians what you have experienced, because I believe --believe you, which I do -- that there is no other conclusion that one can reasonably draw that there was a sustained, consistent effort to interfere politically with the critical role that an attorney general must play in our legal system.”
Later on in the questioning, Raitt asked Wilson-Raybould if SNC-Lavalin lobbyists had ever requested a meeting with her, as they had with numerous others on Parliament Hill, including opposition members. Wilson-Raybould said no. That was also her response when Raitt asked if she was aware that a government relations official at SNC-Lavalin allegedly had professional, and personal relationships with Butts and Chin, dating back to a time when they all worked at Queen’s Park in Ontario.
During the questioning, Wilson-Raybould was asked what recommendations she might have for the committee as it continues its study of the matter. She suggested that one area of change could be recommending that the positions of justice minister and attorney general be separated, so that the AG would not attend cabinet meetings and would remain isolated from the political machinations that the justice minister is privy to.
She also sought to assure Canadians that “I do not want members of this committee or Canadians to think that the integrity of our institutions has somehow evaporated. The integrity of our justice system, the integrity of the director of public prosecutions and prosecutors is intact. So I don’t want to create fear that that’s not the case. It is incumbent upon all of us to uphold our institutions and to uphold the rule of law and that’s why I’m here.”
Wilson-Raybould also suggested that future testimony from the senior officials she had named in her opening statement would be important to the committee’s work. Previous attempts from the opposition to call many of those she has named, were voted down by the Liberal members on the justice committee.
During her opening remarks, some opposition members appeared taken aback by what they were hearing. There were several more opposition members in attendance for the meeting than usual and the viewing gallery inside the room was full.
On her way out of the committee, Wilson-Raybould was asked if she will remain in the Liberal caucus and she said she will continue to serve as the MP for Vancouver-Granville, and that she doesn’t “anticipate being kicked out of caucus.”